Legislature(1993 - 1994)
01/19/1994 08:00 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
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HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
January 19, 1994
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Williams, Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson, Vice-Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative John Davies
Representative Joe Green
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative David Finkelstein
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Pat Carney
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Briefing by Department of Natural Resources, Division of
Lands on selection of land under the Alaska Statehood Act.
WITNESS REGISTER
RON SWANSON, Director
Division of Land
Department of Natural Resources
P.O. Box 107005
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7005
Phone: 762-2692
Position Statement: Briefing on selection of land under the
Alaska Statehood Act
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-1, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Resources Committee was called to order by
CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS at 8:10 a.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde,
Davies, Green, James, Finkelstein and Mulder.
Representative Carney was absent.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced that RON SWANSON was present to
update the committee on the recent completion of the state
selection of lands under the Alaska Statehood Act.
Number 021
RON SWANSON, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF LAND, DEPARTMENT OF
NATURAL RESOURCES (DNR), stated the land selections process
was completed in December, after 35 years of statehood. He
said the state was granted approximately 106 million acres
of land and resources under the Statehood Act and various
territorial grants.
MR. SWANSON informed the committee that 89 million acres
have been conveyed to date, leaving approximately 17 million
acres yet to be transferred to state ownership. He advised
that DNR filed the remaining land selections on December 17,
1993. He noted DNR participated with other state agencies
and interest groups in the process of setting their
priorities for ownership and making selections.
MR. SWANSON stated DNR is presently in the process of
establishing priorities for the conveyance of DNR's
selections, adding that DNR currently has 40 million acres
of selections on the books. He advised DNR's effort to this
point, has been to identify the best land available with a
variety of different resources which the state could
possibly attain. Mr. Swanson said as land is conveyed to
the state, land must also be relinquished since the state is
allowed to carry only 25 percent over the remaining
entitlement.
Number 038
MR. SWANSON explained following the 24 million acres
selections, DNR's activities this past year have been mainly
clean up and technical type work. He said under the general
grant, DNR has selected 625,000 acres, primarily small
pieces overlooked during earlier selections. DNR has been
conducting a land audit of all land records over the past
three years, with many pieces being identified during the
audit. Mr. Swanson stated DNR made a few selections on high
value lands, which are currently withdrawn by the federal
government, that will need to be worked on in order to get
the withdrawals lifted.
MR. SWANSON stated under the community grant, DNR selected
191,00 acres, including land on the Susitna Crossing on the
Denali Highway, land along the Yukon River and land
nominated by the Northwest Arctic Borough for their
municipal entitlement. He said under the community national
forest grant, 13,000 acres were selected in 20 various
areas.
Number 055
MR. SWANSON said under the university grant, DNR worked with
the university to fulfill their entitlement, including small
parcels less than 20 acres near Girdwood, Petersburg and
Haines and a few larger parcels on the Kenai Peninsula and
at the Susitna Crossing. He stated the Alaska National
Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) School grant
entitled 75,000 acres and land was selected near the Denali
Highway and the (inaudible) area.
MR. SWANSON continued that in fiscal 1993, DNR filed 24
million acres in selections, most of which was new acreage
for oil and gas, minerals, transportation corridors and
surface resources. He said prior to recent filings, DNR had
16 million acres on the books which have not yet been
transferred, due to topfilings with Native corporations and
federal withdrawals. He stated that last year the Bureau of
Land Management (BLM) conveyed 1.7 million acres of land to
the state, which is the most in any year since 1984.
Number 075
MR. SWANSON stated the selections filed include five million
acres of high value oil and gas and 2.6 million acres of
moderate value oil and gas; 10.6 million acres of high value
minerals and 11.2 million acres of moderate value minerals;
15.9 million acres of high value surface resources; and 3.6
million acres high value access corridors. Referring to a
wall map, Mr. Swanson pointed out new selections, land
already owned, selections made last year and selections made
prior to that year.
MR. SWANSON said in making selections, DNR had three
categories: subsurface, surface, oil and gas and minerals.
Again, referring to a wall map, he pointed out subsurface
and surface selections. He reviewed another map showing
surface and subsurface priorities combined. He stated DNR
has a steering committee comprised of various state agencies
who are currently determining a priority system.
Number 106
MR. SWANSON remarked DNR's basic portfolio of state owned
land can be broken down into approximately 12 resource
categories: four million acres selected for settlement; one
million acres for agriculture; 20 million acres for grazing;
six million acres for forestry; 13 million acres for public
recreation; 22 million acres for wildlife habitat; 13
million acres for minerals; 25 million acres for oil and
gas; 8.5 million acres for coal; 23 million acres for
general uses, including transportation corridors; and 13.5
million acres for miscellaneous and overvalues.
Number 119
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE asked if selections included
greater acreage for grazing than forestry.
MR. SWANSON said what was being given was the primary values
and the vast majority involves multiple use.
MR. SWANSON continued that the total entitlement was 106
million acres, with 89 million acres received to date and 17
million acres of land still owed to the state. He said DNR
has selected 40 million acres and of that 40 million acres,
21 million acres are conveyable; 19 million acres are not
conveyable including topfilings with Native corporations of
14 million acres, military bases of two million acres,
utility corridors of 2.5 million acres and other withdrawals
of .5 million acres.
MR. SWANSON stated, important to DNR, is the fact that lands
not conveyable do not count against the state's entitlement,
which gives the department time to prioritize, and work with
Native corporations and the federal government to determine
who is really going to own the land. He noted that
particularly important in relation to Native corporations,
DNR wants an Alaskan to own the 14 million acres, whether it
be a Native corporation or the state.
Number 144
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if the 19 million acres count
against the 106 million acres.
MR. SWANSON said if DNR gets conveyance, it will count.
Number 150
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked how long the state can carry
the overselection.
MR. SWANSON replied DNR is allowed to carry 25 percent over
remaining entitlement, and stressed it is very important
that DNR determine the most valuable 19 million acres
desired, determine a conveyance priority list and then
control the rate of conveyance to ensure the land can be
obtained.
Number 175
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON referred to a handout (on file)
and asked with regard to lands conveyed, tentatively
approved and patented, when the DNR anticipates the transfer
of the title for the 89 million acres to the state.
(REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES arrived.)
MR. SWANSON replied that prior to ANILCA, the federal
government considered a tentative approval to be just an
equitable title they could take away, but with ANILCA that
was changed so when the federal government issues a
tentative approval, the state has a working title. He
stated patents will probably not be completed in his
lifetime as only 500,000 to 700,000 acres are surveyed
annually. He added that the federal government gets
approximately $12 million a year for surveying in the state.
Number 198
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON inquired, if the state has a working
title, does that permit development of a land program,
giving the purchaser a proper indicia of ownership?
Number 205
MR. SWANSON replied yes, and a patent is issued which is
basically the same as a statutory warranty deed guaranteeing
the title is good.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said he would be interested in the
status of any ongoing land release programs.
Number 223
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES clarified the federal government
has the primary responsibility of surveying land during the
transfer process and asked if the state interacts with them
in regard to the schedule of which lands they survey.
Number 235
MR. SWANSON said DNR totally controls the conveyance
priority list getting tentatively approved or patented, and
in the patent process, survey windows are used involving
geographic blocks. He stated that the idea behind survey
windows is to determine every claim, adjudicate it, and then
survey it. He noted in regard to using survey windows, DNR
basically gives up surveying that the federal government
might do on state land in order to get the Native
conveyances completed and Native allotments identified,
which in turn gives DNR a better idea on the status of land,
and surveys can be directed later.
Number 255
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said when making priorities, he
suspects there may be pressure to complete the Native
topfilings, oil and gas and minerals and lands desirable for
private ownership, and asked how priorities are established.
MR. SWANSON said there is a conveyance committee comprised
of representatives from various state agencies and interests
which meets every other month to review the list of
selections and determines a list of conveyances which will
meet needs.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked, in looking at one of the
maps, that the north/south corridor is readily seen, but a
continuous east/west corridor is not visible. He said there
has been talk about trying to develop the mineral interests
in the Brooks. He asked if there is a way to make changes
once the land is finalized.
Number 284
MR. SWANSON replied DNR did select all of the transportation
corridors and agreed the east/west corridors were not
visible on the map. He said DNR cannot make any more
selections.
Number 300
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN asked how the corridors
close to Norton Sound meet the compact and contiguous
requirements.
MR. SWANSON answered the corridors do meet the requirements
in that they are three sections wide and nine sections long.
He added that DNR will obtain more land than is needed for a
highway.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated he is encouraged by the
consolidation of selections in the South Central area.
(REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER arrived.)
Number 333
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON wondered if the state has ownership of
any submerged lands, navigable rivers and coastal shelf.
MR. SWANSON said the Submerged Lands Act and the Alaska
Statehood Act confirmed the state owns tide shore and
submerged lands, which are three nautical miles out and
total approximately 60 million acres. He added there are
contentions on where the three miles begin and on
navigability. Mr. Swanson stated ultimately the state will
own and manage 165 million acres including tide shore and
submerged lands.
Number 357
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said his definition of a navigable
river is having the ability to get a boat up it, but added
that the Corps of Engineers stretches the definition of
navigability to having water in it, etc. He questioned if
the definitions are invoked, would the state be getting
title to land which may not have water on it.
MR. SWANSON replied there are three definitions for
navigability including the Coast Guard, Corps of Engineers,
which is tied more to wetlands, and ownership.
Number 401
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked a question regarding a
Yakataga area selection (referring to the map) and asked if
there was a river corridor showing.
MR. SWANSON said it is a river corridor and was selected for
wildlife values. He added that the university owns trees in
the area and stated in the Uni-Uni settlement, the
university only got first time cutting rights for timber.
Number 420
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked about a new selection in
the (inaudible) area.
MR. SWANSON said he did know the answer to his question.
(REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES arrived.)
Number 430
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if winter travel is considered
when defining navigability and ownership.
MR. SWANSON said after the court defined a rubber raft and
canoes, the winter argument was dropped, because if a raft
can go up, it can be used for winter use as well.
Number 452
MR. SWANSON continued that DNR disposed of between 500,000
and one million acres per year up until two years ago. He
stated currently DNR disposes reoffers of 200,000 acres a
year; reoffers being parcels which have been identified in
the past for settlement and people never took the offers or
took them and gave them up enabling DNR to offer them to
someone else.
MR. SWANSON noted DNR would like to bring the disposal
acreage back up to at least 500,000 acres by the fall, but
cautioned the acres offered by the state will not be the
best and will be more homestead type disposals. He added
the failure rate on homestead and home site disposals is
about 80 percent, due to various reasons and requirements.
Number 494
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the federal government has
ever offered land for disposal.
Number 505
MR. SWANSON stated BLM is the only entity which could offer
land disposals and they only own about 56 million acres,
much of which is in designated areas where they cannot do
disposals and most acreage is very remote.
Number 523
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER asked about the current
situation with Fort Rich.
MR. SWANSON stated Eklutna, Inc. was not able to obtain
their entitlement because of the numerous withdrawals, so a
settlement was accorded in the North Anchorage Land
Agreement, providing that if Fort Rich ever comes out,
anything this side of the line goes to the Native
corporation first and anything the other side of the line
goes to the state first. He is convinced that much of what
Eklutna wants, the state would not want because it is land
primarily in the firing ranges.
Number 550
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated there is concern in Anchorage
regarding Eklutna Lake. He said there is a disposal in
process and at one time Anchorage had it. He thought the
process had been transferred to the Eklutna Corporation.
MR. SWANSON said the Eklutna Lake disposal is also a part of
the North Anchorage Land Agreement, which specified that if
the Department of Transportation or the state submitted an
application, the land would be conveyed to the state. He
believed the application was submitted, but it still had not
been transferred, and added the purpose of the conveyance is
for float plane expansion.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked who has overlays on the
buildings at Fort Rich.
MR. SWANSON stated the buildings could not be obtained in
the Statehood Act as it needs to be vacant, unappropriated
and unreserved; meaning the buildings would have to go
through the GSA disposal process.
Number 585
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated municipalities are
beginning to get into the disposal process, and asked if
there are others besides Kenai and Mat-Su who have begun
disposing their own land.
MR. SWANSON said about five million acres have been conveyed
to municipalities for disposal and development purposes. He
stated the Fairbanks North Star Borough, Kenai Borough, and
the Mat-Su Borough are the only three who actively have land
disposal programs. He added urban boroughs are selecting
land for different reasons than rural boroughs and once the
land is obtained, it can be managed as they desire.
Number 613
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the oil pipeline corridor
from Fairbanks to Haines is an ownership situation.
MR. SWANSON replied there is no corridor, but is a condition
of multiple land ownership subject to a right-of-way.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON inquired, if there was a desire to put
a line through, would there be a need to go back and
establish relations with the owners?
Number 625
MR. SWANSON replied that is correct and said it would not be
a problem when it's across state land. He stated where the
withdrawal has been lifted, it crosses Native conveyed land.
Number 635
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES noted there are two kinds of disposals
ongoing in the Fairbanks North Star Borough: subdivision
development and a lottery.
MR. SWANSON noted the Mat-Su Borough also started doing the
lottery and it has been very popular.
Number 670
MR. SWANSON stated the division's tasks for the next few
months include prioritizing their most important selections
and determining their order. He said currently the agencies
have evaluated and ranked all of the existing selections
with the results to be publicly released and public comments
will be requested.
Number 700
MR. SWANSON concluded that as a result of the land selection
effort, the state has the best GIS land record system
anywhere in the United States.
Number 722
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked if there is the capability of
attaining all land ownership records.
MR. SWANSON replied DNR has the ability to use the BLM
computer and ask questions, but there is not one place to
go.
TAPE 94-1, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. SWANSON stated with regard to the 17 million acres, DNR
will submit a conveyance priority list to BLM who directs
the conveyances and added that DNR totally controls the
list. He noted the current conveyance priority list
contains about two million acres, including corridor and oil
and gas and minerals lands selected in 1992, and noted that
DNR expects to have a conveyance rate of 500,000 to 800,000
acres a year.
Number 018
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if there are other state land
acquisitions currently in process other than Kachemak Bay
and the Prince William Sound.
Number 025
MR. SWANSON said in Kachemak Bay, the state acquired land,
timber and minerals and the cost was 22 million acres. He
stated the Prince William Sound acquisition involved timber
and much of the land selected was from the National Forest
Community Grant.
Number 033
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if lands were being swapped in
the Yakutat and Yakataga areas.
MR. SWANSON said DNR is currently in an area planning
process for that area and it has not been completed because
of land ownership questions.
Number 064
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commended DNR for a job well-done.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked in regard to the overselection of
19 million acres, will there still be an opportunity to
adjust areas?
MR. SWANSON said that is correct.
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated he went through a land selection,
having a deadline date in the year 1975, and the selection
still has not been completed. He asked if the state could
go back and adjust the number of acres.
MR. SWANSON replied the only way to do that would be to go
back to Congress and have Congress authorize DNR to make
additional selections. He stated there have been several
amendments to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act since
1971, allowing additional selections to occur. He added one
of the differences between Native selections and state
selections is that with Native selections there is no cap.
Number 117
MR. SWANSON stated with Native selections and DNR's
selections on the books, there is a need to get together and
compare resource data and knowledge, and not engage in any
arguing since the ultimate goal for both parties is Alaskan
ownership.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how first-cut is administered in
regard to timber entitlement.
MR. SWANSON said the first-cut issue is only in Yakutat and
involves the settlement with the university. He added the
state owns the land, but the university gets to cut the
timber first and has to follow the Forest Practices Act.
Number 138
ANNOUNCEMENTS
CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee will meet Friday,
January 21 to consider SB 132 regarding state loans for the
purchase of individual fishing quotas. He introduced the
new committee secretary, Gail Ford.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House
Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting
at 9:05 a.m.
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